«Before the war, no one in the world realised what Ukrainians are capable of,» – Bishop of Chicago

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Why did God allow the murders in Bucha, are Russians really Christians and how should we treat their culture? In the project «Accents of Your City», we discussed these and other issues with Venedykt Aleksiychuk, the bishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Chicago.

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No one gave Ukraine a chance that it would fight the way it does now. Are these miracles a coincidence?

I think a problem of the modern generation is that we live in a paradigm of our knowledge. We say: you have to understand everything, do everything yourself. But the fact is that the human mind is limited. No matter how many gigabytes of information the brain has, no matter how many intellectuals gather for discussion, no matter how much effort artificial intelligence spends – you cannot count everything. How many times have we already seen that we were wrong? The mind always has certain knowledge, certain experience, but it cannot take everything into account. Therefore, when we talk about Ukraine, we can say that a miracle cannot be explained, but we can say that it happened. They did not take into account something more, something that does not lend itself to statistics, or accounting. They did not take into account the fact that Ukrainians live here.

The modern world does not live in such a paradigm. Which European countries could defend themselves as Ukraine does? I doubt there are any. We, Ukrainians, were maturing too. In recent years, we had a feeling of inferiority, always willing either Europe or America, but instead, we have something unique in Ukraine. We showed values the world hasn’t known for a long time: to give one’s life for the Motherland and to engage in volunteering at the highest level. The problem is that we thought we knew ourselves, and the world thought it knew Ukrainians. However, no one knew Ukrainians, because we personally didn’t know ourselves. That is why God gave us this situation to manifest. Not so long ago, we made tests for Covid-19. Ukraine passed this test and showed that it’s a mature, solid state and nation.

It seems to me that we here in Ukraine really want some kind of westernization. Was this the last pebble on Putin’s scales, for whom it was unacceptable that Ukraine moves towards the West, or were there other reasons?

There is a completely different reason here. Psychology asserts that the one who is afraid has aggression. Why is Putin afraid of Ukraine? It’s because the changes that began here, in the Slavic state, became a trigger that pressed on him. This change first covered Galicia. And slowly, over 30 years of independence, it reached our capital and moved on. Thus, Putin was conscious, he understood that this would come to Russia. That’s why, in my opinion, Putin wanted to destroy in its infancy what should, in his understanding, destroy Russia.

Read also: «The Pope is not a naive pacifist.» Philadelphian Greek Catholic Bishop about Francis’ statement about the war

Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko said a long time ago about Westernization: «Learn from foreign.» It’s important to learn from someone else, but still, any copy in the world is less valuable than the original. Ukraine must become original. I once lived in Ukraine, in Canada, now I live in the USA. But Canada and the USA are two different countries politically, economically, and socially. Why do they function? Because they are composed in a good way.

Talking about Westernization, we shouldn’t copy Poland, Hungary, Slovakia or America. Why is Japan the way it looks now? After being defeated in the Second World War, they sent their young students to other countries of the world to study and gain experience, and this is how the phenomenon of Japan was formed in the context of a hardworking culture. It’s the same in Ukraine: we have to know what our originality is.

I believe that this war will show our essence. We have a saying: «a comrade is known in trouble.» It’s not only about a friend – I personally know when I’m in trouble or in difficulties. Therefore, I am sure that this trouble, this war, and this tragedy will shake off everything that’s insignificant, will show what is most important for us as a people.

There were many Ukrainians who said: «What’s the difference?» Many people were not interested in Ukrainian culture, many of them are now in search of identity. Where is the boundary of being a Ukrainian?

It’s a way. Poles and Americans understand each other differently. There are many nations that understand their authenticity in a different way. Here we talk about Ukrainians too. We cannot cross the line. It will take tens of years for everyone to be able to speak Ukrainian. There are many older people who struggle, who cannot or will not. There are many people who grew up in the pro-Soviet paradigm. That’s why I think this is an important path.

I have the courage to say this because I myself participated in the Ukrainian revolutions, but I do not believe in revolutions, since during them, we want to change someone or something. I believe that the evolutionary path is more important. We know many things that should be for health and sports. But often, we have one ideal, while the reality is different.

We must understand that no one will save Ukraine except ourselves. Nobody will build Ukraine but us, and no one will reveal our identity but us. The war showed it. No advisers and specialists will do this, because they have their own other experiences. We must learn from their experiences, but also discover that ours is original. They will help us, but they won’t do it instead of us.

You said at the beginning that there are values ​​to die for. We say Ukrainians are different, but they are ready to die for the Motherland. Isn’t this quite an outdated value?

This isn’t an outdated value, because you feel like a Ukrainian but did not fall from the sky and suddenly become a Ukrainian after reading books. We drew our authenticity, our identity because we grew up here. Our identity comes from this environment we’re in, so it’s valuable to us because it is us.

We are not raised in a greenhouse. Look at the phenomenon of Mowgli, when a person grows up outside of society. A dog was born a dog, so he needs dogs. A person needs a human environment. When we talk about certain values ​​and formations, they constitute the environment.

Read also: «The world came to Ukraine to learn what the modern country is,» – psychotherapist Oleksandr Filts.

We look wise because we had parents. They gave us a certain foundation and values, each of us followed different paths, but the family gave us the foundation. Quite often, we do not appreciate this foundation of the family. Family in a narrow sense is a family, in a broader sense – a city or village, in an even broader sense, it’s the country of Ukraine. These values ​​are not prescribed but are those filled by society.

What is the modern answer to a very old question that has become relevant again in times of war: if God exists, why does He allow this?

If we want to look for answers, we have to look at the crucifixion. Where was God when Christ was crucified? Christ is always on the side of those who are patient. But what is the phenomenon? God didn’t stop us when we did bad things in our life. How many stupid things and sins do we do, actually, and where is God? Why doesn’t He stop us? This is freedom. This is the phenomenon of human freedom, given to us by the Lord. He gave and cannot take away this freedom, because this is what our humanity consists of. If God took away our freedom, we would become robots.

What is the biggest punishment in Ukraine? It’s deprivation of liberty. So, this is the greatest, God-given value. Therefore, everything lies in human freedom. God gives man the freedom of choice; the problem is that some people make bad choices on a large scale and some – on a smaller one. Still, each of us makes a choice, sometimes a bad one, but God accepts our choice, honors it, because that is what our free will is and that is what our humanity is – to make our own decisions.

When we look at the Russian Orthodox Church and their support of this war, the question arises: are Russians really Christians?

I believe that the Church has a very simple task in society. Conscience tells us many things, but do we always listen to it? Sometimes, and sometimes not. But conscience says, it cannot be bribed. This is the vocation of the Church – to always speak to society.

Russia’s problem is that the Church has grown so much with society that it no longer has the courage to speak. And when I hear the accusation of their patriarch that he does not say something there, I smile. He can’t say anything. People, Putin does not allow him! If the patriarch had said even one word against it, he would no longer be on this earth, Putin would have gotten rid of him. Because this is the so-called «Caesaropapism» – the fusion of the state and the Church.

What is the phenomenon of the Greek Catholic Church and why is Galicia exactly like this and not anything else? I have the courage to say this because I’m not a Galician. Galicia is like this because it’s the merit of the Greek Catholic Church. It has many shortcomings, but its phenomenon is that it always stands outside the state, educates conscious citizens, speaks a lot about values ​​important for the nation and nation-building, but it’s independent. However, there is a danger when the Church gets closer, becomes too close to the state: at that point, it will not say anything. People say: «he who pays, he also orders the music.» Freedom of the Church must be paid for. Our Church has paid for freedom. It was destroyed when the Soviet government came, because they did not want the Church to speak.

For Galicia, the Greek Catholic Church was a partial replacement of the nobility and the intelligentsia. The problem is that it tried not to lower itself to the people, but to raise them up. Can the Church still perform this function today, here or anywhere, when every time fewer Galician teenagers go to it?

The Church can and has always been able to speak. Even the greatest murderer has a conscience that speaks to him. Conscience does not think whether we listen to it or not. The Church must not have this fear, but it must always bear witness to the truth.

We must admit that 100 years ago, the Church had a monopoly in the village. Where did the information come from? People went to church on Sunday. Divine service, the priest’s sermon, then reading – and that’s it.

Now, the Church has many competitors. The world has many other sources of information. What is the Internet and Youtube worth? Now you don’t have to go to church at all, because there are many live broadcasts, you can be at home and in church at the same time.

Nevertheless, I think, friends are valued for personal relationships. It’s good to call by phone and talk some time, but personal relationships are more important. Spouses and children can communicate if they are far away, but still, people want a personal relationship.

Therefore, no matter how much [channels of communication] there is, people will need the Church. Our people say: «No matter how much you feed the wolf, he will still look into the forest.» By analogy, we can say: «No matter how much you feed the human soul, it is looking for its own Creator». Man is created in the image and likeness of God, and the Church must respond to man in his search for God. Therefore, it must be open and speak to people in the context of the current culture, mentality and lifestyle. But I am sure that the Church will always be in demand, because it responds to human aspirations, that human life is short and limited, and eternity awaits man.

This monopoly was great and all-encompassing until the invention of the printing press, when the Church decided to compete and did so successfully. Does this mean that the Church now has to compete with new ways of communication?

Value is important. If an interesting person speaks, she will be listened to. This is not a question of whether someone can be promoted: if this someone is empty, it won’t share anything. This is about the fact that people need personality.

I once was in the circle of Protestants, and they spoke enthusiastically about His Beatitude Liubomyr Huzar [the former head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholics], who died five years ago. They spoke about him as a personality, because he was the one. He gave interviews, was not afraid to talk to journalists, but above all, he was an individual. Therefore, for me, the primary thing is to be someone and have something to say, then you can communicate about something. However, if you are not a person and if you have nothing to give and nothing to say, then any means of communication will not help.

One of the problems of Russian «high» culture is that it is the literature of moral nihilism. Why did the Russians choose it for themselves as an important element, when we reject this nihilism? What is its danger and where does it come from?

Speaking about Russian and Ukrainian attitudes, the main difference between them is freedom. We, Ukrainians, need to be free people and individuals. In Russia, I think, this does not exist. Of course, certain individuals stood out against this background and then they «shined» very much, because they were completely different. Maybe we, Ukrainians, do not have many such personalities, but our general level is much higher.

Therefore, it seems to me that it’s better to have a general level higher than to have certain personalities called «culture». You can have certain cultural and spiritual ideals, but the question is how you live.

​​Read also: «Russia acts as a religious sect, or why we shouldn’t think about good Russians»

There may be a «great» Russian culture in society, but it is also indicative – what a «great» culture is, and what the low-level people are. It was on the basis of such an imbalance that these individuals emerged, and in this way, they wanted to show something, but it did not affect the general.

The Russian writer Leskov said: «Russia was baptized, but not enlightened.» It was not changed, plowed over, and processed. States and societies change, but both in Russia and in the Soviet Union, this «leaven» always remained. And God grant that this war «shakes» them. Then, perhaps, the Russian nation will finally be born into this world, because it cannot be born in any other way. This is one of our missions – that we bring some other values.

Read also: Bishop Gudziak: Ukrainians were fated to cure Russia from pathology

When the Russian military got to Bucha, Hostomel and Irpin, they were shocked. They did not understand many things because of living in a completely different world, even in the sense of welfare. Like they said: «Who allowed you to live beautifully?» This shows their completely different consciousness. And here, it’s very important for the Church and society not only to have personalities but also to work with people so that the average level of people in various areas grows.

There are many sociological surveys that show how Ukrainians have changed during the five months of the war. They testify that trust in each other has increased. It’s often assumed that trust is a byproduct of truth. However, looking at Russia, we see that something similar to trust can grow out of total lies. Is it a fatal problem for us to tolerate untruth?

We had and still have rules of etiquette, but did you notice that the word «etiquette» is strikingly similar to with the word «etyketka» (in Ukrainian)? It means a sticker. You have learned certain rules and behave according to them because society says so. A mature person does not need etiquette. She behaves naturally, does not play any role and doesn’t put on a mask. When life hits, a person constantly wants to put on some masks and play some role in order to stay alive.

However, when we go to the doctor, we play no role. We want to show that we are more sick than healthy, we show ourselves in the truth. We go to the doctor when there is an illness, trouble, or a problem. The problem of war gave us an impetus to show ourselves in truth. All walkie-talkies lose their meaning if my friend dies. Trivial things completely lose their meaning, lose any value.

When we talk about trust, I usually talk about mutual trust. They increase interdependetly. And when we talk about mutual trust, it’s worth talking about one thing that we, Ukrainians, like to use. This is unanimity.

How many like-minded friends do you have? We use this word, but it’s not true. We cannot think alike. In Soviet times, you could be imprisoned for dissent. And we begin to understand that we can disagree with each other on something, but respect and trust each other. Then, we feel free.

When you say that you respect and trust, even though you don’t understand, then «The wings are unfolding». This allows us to grow in mutual trust. But it’s a long process, step by step. Therefore, this life changed us. We, Ukrainians, will be completely different, and Ukraine will be different. We can’t go back to a previous version of us. The war is changing this paradigm even more, in particular relations with Russia.

We don’t need to build any fence between us: we have already acquired a completely different way of thinking. The Ukrainian who was before the war now is different. We have become mature. War will not kill us as a nation, it will make us stronger, we will crystallize as a nation and understand the path of our development.

Should Ukraine remain a bridge between East and West?

I do not agree. Because a bridge is something on which everyone goes back and forth. I don’t want to be walked on, I don’t want to be a bridge. We are a nation, and war will help us get rid of our inferiority complex.

I live in the USA and I can proudly say that I am Ukrainian. Once, 20 years ago, we had to prove to the Americans that we are not Russians. Now I am proud of my nationality. I walk around Chicago and see more blue and yellow flags and ribbons than in Lviv.

People sympathize immeasurably. I visited our UGCC monastery deep in the mountains of the USA, where there are no Ukrainians. I saw blue and yellow flags on the houses, because people feel that here, in Ukraine, something special has manifested itself, that human values ​​have manifested themselves in Ukraine. America is also lost in its quest for gender and freedom and also does some stupid things. The value of human life was shown in Ukraine. The value of giving one’s life for freedom, defending the state. Therefore, Ukraine becomes a personality.

Look, for example, at our president. If he knew what was waiting for him, he would not want to become president. But God said: «You want to be president – please do!» God knew him even better than he knew himself. And we now have a good president. Neither others nor he himself knew that he would be ready, but God put him in this place. He has matured to this. I’m only afraid that he has flaws as a person and that there aren’t so many of them that they don’t start throwing mud at him. But as the president manifested, so will the Ukrainian nation.

Soldiers at the front say there are no atheists at the time of shelling. Does this mean that a person is ready to accept God only at the worst moment? How do you feel about this and how to solve the question that human life is short-lived in general?

This is the whole problem of human existence. We have been studying at school for 10 years, four at the university and we are still studying. We are still told how to give advice in this material world, but we’re not shaped as personalities spiritually.

Material things disappear like dust in difficult times, and a person begins to understand some even deeper values. Someone was lucky that he had a believing family, a parish that shaped him. But, speaking of the average Ukrainian or European, people are not educated in the consciousness of their life-being.

A person consists of a body – this is true. But there is still spiritual life. And when a person sees that all this earthly life will collapse, that he can lose this life, he begins to perceive this world in a different way. We say that until the thunder strikes, a person will not cross himself. And what’s next? I made a sign of cross because it thundered. Well, but have you thought about further life?

Therefore, it’s important not to forget the moment when you can think about life. During our earthly life, we ​​have to live, acquire, grasp, but remember that this is one of the aspects of life. There is eternity waiting for us one way or another, whether we believe in God or not, whether we want it or not.

We Christians believe that God takes people when they are most ready for eternity, so they were most ready, even the children whom God called to himself. However, here on earth, we have a certain mission to fulfil. For some reason, we were born Ukrainians, not Americans. Imagine if we were born Russians. But God wants us in this nation to do something good here on earth. Because even when we talk about eternity, it’s not just something like that. We get it here, living on earth. Our earthly life is like a runway on which we need to do something good.

Each of us has our own roadblock. This is important to understand. Where God has placed you, He wants you to do something there for Him, for people and for yourself.

Andrii Saichuk spoke

Text: Roman Tyshchenko-Lamanskyi, translated by Vitalii Holich

Photo: Tvoe Misto/ Ivan Stanislavskyi

Full or partial republication of the text without the written consent of the editorial office is prohibited and is considered a copyright violation.

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