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Lviv residents who have relatives in the region will be able to go somewhere. But Lviv is one of the few regional centres that grew in population after the full-scale invasion began.
Right. Today, there are 150,000 Ukrainians who have actually found a second home here.
That is, in the case of power outages for a long time, these people would surely be the most vulnerable, wouldn’t they?
I think that the majority will stay in Lviv this winter as well. That is, if people built a heating point in their house – it’s okay. But we will build such in all schools, in the administrations. Of course, I will not tell you about the whole scope of what we do in the city. First of all, I am confused by our hospitals, because it’s important that they have more than just light. One operation, which was performed on a seriously wounded person during the shelling, lasted during a complete «blackout», when diesel generators were switched on. Now, we are building alternative boiler houses so that, if there is no centralized heating, the patients will still have heating and be warm. Of course, you can’t do this for all the buildings in Lviv. Let’s hope that our repair crews will work quickly enough. But it is better to prepare yourself, even psychologically, to understand that it can be a difficult situation.
This initiative of yours to compensate half the cost of generators for condominiums and housing units – did it work out?
Yes, people write statements, they are applying. We compensate not only those who want to buy, but also those who have already done it. Well, people don’t have extra money these days. And this is such an incentive: if there is a diesel generator in the house, then you can already charge phones there and have some basic level of lighting. You know, there can never be too much security.
There are many complaints about the unevenness in turning off the power. Some people say they have it turned off often, while others are not affected at all. Is there really such a thing, and can it be balanced somehow?
You see, if the light was turned off for you, but not for Petro, then the frog presses you twice [Ukrainian idiom for expressing envious annoyance]. When the city was built, no one planned the scheduled and emergency shutdowns. The specificity is that if a strategic facility – a hospital or a factory – is located on the same line as your house, then it will not be disconnected. If there are no such facilities, there will be shutdowns. And here the energy experts will not come up with anything, because this is how the city’s electricity supply system is built. On November 17, I had a conversation with Iryna Marunyak who has been without electricity for two days [after the Russian massive attack], although she is also the deputy mayor for housing and communal services. What can she do? Nothing! And when there are outages, she will not have light like the others. People call me, complain, speak to me, and I explain to them: «Friends, these are the realities.»
Lviv is still in fairly good condition. In general, how does the city’s economy work in the conditions of martial law? Can we say that it functions?
You know, it does. Taxes are paid, all enterprises are involved. Many have even switched to longer working hours because there are many specialized enterprises whose products are important for the life of the city and our guys on the front lines. But the question is: «So what?» Even if we have these taxes, we have no right to spend these funds on anything today. For example, on the road repair, though very often people complain: «You didn’t repair here, but you did it on Orlyka street.» Actually, it was done there, because the contractors worked on credit, as they believe that one day we will pay them for it. Just like on Horodotska street.
Now, we spend a lot of time designing. On November 17, the sixth year passed since people took a tram to the Sykhiv district. Now, by the way, we are working on a project to extend the tram line from the city centre to Mykolaychuka street in the northern part of the city, where there is an emergency hospital and a children’s hospital. Many will say: «How can you think about this during the war?» But I believe that, on the contrary, we should imagine how we will live during the war and think about you and me, because Lviv must always develop. Yes, it is difficult, but life goes on.
The mayor of Ivano-Frankivsk urged residents of high-rise buildings to move to the village for the winter because emergency power outages in November were expected to last for days. Do you also advise this?
You know, I was born and lived all my life in Lviv. And no matter how difficult it is, I will not leave anywhere. I will stay here, in place. And no matter how much I talked to my friends, no one is planning to go anywhere either. But there is nowhere to go. If someone wants it, I can neither forbid nor recommend it. I believe we should do everything possible to show our resilience, firmness, and rebuild the city in such a way that we survive these tough times.
Do the city mayor and local self-government have enough powers now, or is there a duality of power with the military administration?
You know, there is normal coordination with the regional administration and government structures. There is less stupidity now.
Less than it was at the beginning of the war?
Less than it used to be. Before the war, it was «one has more power, and the other has less.» Now, thank God, we somehow have normal human relations with the deputies of the city council. Everyone understands their personal responsibility.
If you now had more opportunities to manage the city’s budget funds, what would you do?
Managing is not a question. The problem is that the country’s treasury account is short of funds. Therefore, first of all, it is about the support of the army, territorial defense and things that ensure the life of the city: diesel generators, boiler houses – this is what we spend the main funds on today. The salary has become even smaller.
In an interview, you said that you used to do a lot of things, but you didn’t talk about it. But then, you realize that if not talking about what you’re doing, people think you’re not doing anything. Where in the activity of the mayor, should there be a balance between PR and effective work?
Hmm. This is a very strategic issue. You understand that there are certain traditions in the country. Lviv is not a self-governing city, like an island, we live in our state. Yes, there were problems with corruption and, probably, they will remain for a long enough period. Very often, young reformers were simply not given the opportunity to do something, because they began to break the schemes that «fed» large numbers of people. So they were simply thanked and then told they were ineffective. If you want to make reforms, you must be prepared and understand that you have a minimum time to implement them, there is no time for swings. Therefore, it is necessary to hire those who know what, how, and when to do. And, of course, you have to tell people about all your steps. Then, there is trust, because if you don’t have it, you will be multiplied by zero very quickly.
What role does Lviv play for Ukraine now? Perhaps there is a complex of being a deep rear. We bury our heroes every day.
This situation exists in all the cities of our country, so we are united in the trouble we’re experiencing. If we have fewer power outages now, this does not mean there will be fewer power outages tomorrow. We accepted a great responsibility: 5 million Ukrainians passed through us, through Lviv, during these months of the war. There were days when 2 million people lived in Lviv at the same time.
Today, we have 150,000 people and three large refugee towns. We are partially rebuilding them, we are building another, a very large one for 500 people, preparing new premises. After the beginning of the Russian intervention, we had about a hundred embassies. This is both a responsibility and a rethinking of Lviv’s mission. For me, Kyiv is the heart, and Lviv is the soul of Ukraine.
In a practical sense, what will it mean after the war? Will the cultural influence of Lviv be greater?
Today, there is a big exhibition at the Academy of Arts. It hosts the Kharkiv Academy of Arts, which includes the Kharkiv School of Architecture. Why is this important? Because modern art and culture expand the horizons of thinking. Contemplating these works, listening to modern music, you find solutions to many problematic issues, this prompts your activity. Therefore, I would very much like Lviv, officially titled the cultural capital of Ukraine, to be added the status of a contemporary city of modern architecture and modern art. And that the coolest artists, creators had the honour to come from the whole world to Lviv, to be here.
Just like today, we accept many injured people and therefore, we build the «Nezlamni» (Unbreakable) rehabilitation ecosystem. These are thousands of people who passed through Lviv. Every day, thank God, we make temporary prostheses in Lviv, and plan to make full prostheses soon. For example, if a child does not have a leg, he must have 18 prostheses by the age of 18. Can you imagine what it is? How many such children do we have today? Hundreds! And adults? And how many boys have no arms or legs? How many wheelchairs? You understand that we need to rebuild the city so that they all feel worthy. So that there is low-floor transport and level pavements. They should feel respected because they gave their lives for us and you. First of all, we need to rebuild ourselves very seriously, and then the city, the country. Because it’s no longer possible as it was before.
What will the new social covenant be? And how would you like it to look?
Free people, free country. I am very happy that each of us understands our responsibility, that the demands on the authorities will increase by order of magnitude. It is necessary to increase the level of competence of those people who make decisions. You know, the greatest stupidity and foolishness can be hidden behind the walls of administrative buildings. But today, in times of digitization, you can’t hide it very well, because people need solutions every day. First of all, we need to expel Muscovites from our land, but at the same time, we should think about how our city, community, and country should look like. Here you have to simultaneously activate two parts of the brain so that the thought process takes place in different directions and is effective.
Now, all of Ukraine is united by one enemy. But what is our national identity? Should it be based on the identity of the Galician project?
I think that joining the European Union and NATO will give us certain frameworks, and we should live within those frameworks. Very often in our country, the rule of law is interpreted by everyone in their own way. The judge believes it should be like this, the prosecutor has a different position, the official – other thoughts, and a simple person says: «Listen, where should I be here?». There are clear rules. I don’t remember that, for example, in Lviv, someone who steals was put in prison. If the police did not take him, the prosecutor’s office took it, if the prosecutor’s office did, the judge made a decision somewhere, and so on. So we have it. Now, I see that the anti-corruption court has already started making arrests – one is jailed, so is the other. If people see that there is dynamics, there is justice – then it’s okay. If the teacher’s salary is 4-5 times higher, it will be fair. And we will measure everything from this.
Today, there is one political community – the citizens of our state. Any division into parties in the world has clear signs: there are liberals, conservatives, and centrists. In our country, for some reason, political parties are always built around a leader who is «unisex» – he is both one and the other, and they are all like that. That’s a bit stupid. Because, for example, when you turn on the television in America, you will understand from the candidate’s rhetoric whether he is a Democrat or a Republican. Maybe, it will be like that in our country too. But I would like us to beat Moscow together, then join the European Union and NATO together, and then deal with divisions into political factions or groups.
Why aren’t businesses not inspected and fined for not saving electricity?
I think every business owner understands their personal responsibility. We reduce the lighting as much and where possible, but we cannot go down to the critical limit, because there are safety issues. The police should catch thieves, not sit in the dark. In general, we have fairly liberal legislation. During the war, you mustn’t check anyone, even businesses that haven’t paid taxes for a long time and continue omitting it. But «it’s all being recorded», as the people say.
Big infrastructural projects that were launched at one time – a digital ticket for public transport, the construction of a waste processing plant. Are they all frozen now?
No. The plant is under construction, the landfill is reclaimed, and the biogas plant is also in an active phase. E-ticket – some settings are being adjusted there, it also had its own problems. But it’s all about work, maybe not so extensive, because today is maybe not the time to talk about it. The day before yesterday, the passage to Orlyka street was opened. 11,000 wounded people passed through our First Medical Association, it is clear that there should be quality transportation. There is a lot of different work, but some are of primary importance, and some are secondary.
Traffic has increased in the city, there are many cars from other regions. How to unload the city? Is it possible to introduce a city electric train, or is it a very expensive infrastructure project?
There are such joint plans with the railway, but in the world, they pay a lot of money for this. In our country, people want it to be, but not worth much. Recently, in Lviv, the amount of money we receive from parking fines has increased several times. But you cannot solve the issue of quality parking in the city without underground parking lots. These are insanely large funds, and there are no investors.
How do you see Ukrainian victory in this war?
Return all our territories, rebuild the country, join the EU and NATO. Then I will say: «We did it!».
Andrii Saichuk spoke
Text: Marichka Ilyina, translated by Vitalii Holich
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